15.08.2024 Gabriele Strasser 4913

Johannes Hartl: "We are unlearning tolerance"

Whether in families, friendships or at work, topics such as climate change, migration or wars can lead to heated discussions. The language then often becomes harsher and derogatory comments are made. What can we do on a small scale to contribute to a tolerant society?

As part of our campaign "Stay in the conversation - show attitude", philosopher, theologian and author Johannes Hartl presents food for thought on how to show attitude in controversial conversations and at the same time stay in contact with each other. An interview about the importance of tolerance, common argumentation patterns on social media and what it takes to find a constructive culture of conversation again.

Mr. Hartl, what does tolerance mean to you?

Johannes Hartl: The ability to treat another person with respect and goodwill, even if our opinions differ. 

The topic of one of your lectures is "Are we canceling tolerance?". What is your concern?

We live in ever smaller opinion bubbles. The algorithms of news dissemination on the internet select the information that reinforces our own world view. As a result, we are unlearning tolerance. I am also concerned that well over 50 percent of people in Germany say they no longer dare to speak their mind openly. 

You spend a lot of time on social media, where discussions are not always objective. What patterns of argumentation do you often encounter?

Outrage replaces the argument. "Shame on you!" and "Saying something like that is a slap in the face for group XY!" are humanly understandable reactions, but not an argument. In fact, we are experiencing increasingly emotionalized reactions and less and less friendly but clear discussions. 

You sometimes take a provocative stance. What do you say to people who feel they can no longer express their opinion?

Fortunately, we live in a country where you can speak your mind. Unfortunately, the social costs are sometimes very high. For example, anyone who expressed doubts about the usefulness of the coronavirus measures was defamed, labeled a nutcase and in some cases even lost their job. Even the social stigma of having a supposedly "bad" opinion or being a "denier" of something can be very intimidating. Nevertheless, the solution can only be to speak out anyway, otherwise we voluntarily place ourselves in bondage.

Do you have a few simple tips on how to keep the conversation going even when opinions differ?

This is best learned within the family, because you can't choose your family members according to their opinions. In fact, the most important thing is to listen honestly and without prejudice. Do I really hear the argument and the concern behind it or do I immediately divide the opinion into "good" and "bad"?  

Our campaign is called "Stay in conversation - show attitude". Where do you draw a red line when you stop a conversation?

In the case of personal insults, constant repetition of arguments that have already been refuted and, of course, physical violence.  

Whether at work, among friends or in the family: many debates are currently heated. Do you think we can find our way back to a calmer culture of discussion? What would that take?

I think that is quite possible. Debating should be actively taught at school (which is certainly the case in some schools) and anyone in the public eye should set a good example. Nevertheless, we have to realize that the rapid pace of digitalization is fundamentally opposed to in-depth, factual and controversial debate. Active efforts will therefore be needed to maintain the high value of a culture of discussion. 

Thank you very much for the interview, Mr. Hartl!

"Stay in the conversation - show attitude" campaign